Framework with Ana Trujillo Limón
The podcast designed to help financial advisors challenge the status quo, grow your firm, and not only put best practices to use, but create new best practices altogether. Hosted by Ana Trujillo Limón.
Framework with Ana Trujillo Limón
Jessica Flynn: Attracting & Retaining Next-Gen Talent
What powers the future of financial advisory?
In this episode, Ana Trujillo Limón, Director, Coaching and Advisor Content, speaks with Jessica Flynn, Director of Account Strategy at Intention.ly, about how to better engage the next generation of stakeholders and clients. They navigate through the evolving landscape of financial services, expanding on Jessica's journey from a reluctant start in 2008 to a passionate advocate for next-gen empowerment in finance.
Jessica discusses:
- The importance of mentorship and guidance in empowering the next generation of financial professionals
- How we can engage next-gen stakeholders and clients effectively
- Strategies for enhancing client engagement and building meaningful relationships in the digital age
- The significance of succession planning and creating opportunities for next-gen leaders within financial organizations
- The importance of asking for what you want in your career and life
- How financial advisors and professionals can navigate their career paths, promote personal growth, and embrace change and opportunities effectively
- The intersection of technology, marketing, and finance in shaping the future of the financial services industry
- And more
Don't miss out on Jess Flynn's insightful journey and her forward-thinking approach to integrating technology and marketing to redefine success in the financial sector.
Resources:
- Carson Group: Reframe Live Series Announcement
- Julie Ragatz, Ph.D.: Empowering Women in Wealth Management
Connect with Ana Trujillo Limón:
Connect with Jessica Flynn:
About Our Guest:
Jessica Flynn is bold, resourceful and fluent in all things "financial planning." Experienced fintech & marketing consultant. Artful negotiator and true collaborator. Independently responsible for identifying, developing and integrating custom projects that require prioritization and cross-department collaboration. Trusted to identify trends and opportunities within the Financial Services sector, and honing a network of professionals to deliver meaningful change. Continuously increasing levels of responsibility refining strategic partnerships and deepening revenue streams through comprehensive organization-wide solutions and service lines.
Send us your questions, we’d love to hear from you! Email us at framework@carsongroup.com.
I am worried that that's going to happen to me because you look up and I'll be 45 or something one day here soon and it's like, what? You know what is coming? I don't know. TikTok is all over. My kid, my son is five and he thinks he's perpetually in a video game. He, like, tells me he's adding a banana to his inventory as he leaves in the morning. I'm like, What are you talking about? Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Framework podcast, I'm your host Ana Trujillo Limon, and this month on Framework, we’re talking about how to better engage next gen stakeholders and clients and I'm really excited to be joined by my former colleague Jess Flynn from we both used to work at the Financial Planning Association and now you're working with Intention.ly You've made a lot of great moves since we last worked together. So Jess, thank you so much for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's so nice to see you again. You too. So Jess, tell our listeners a little bit about you, how you got into the industry and what you do now. Yeah. So financial Services was never something that I set out to do. It was, you know, the byproduct of me graduating from college in 2008 and needing to get that first job. And so kind of following my very conservative family sort of footsteps, you know, pushing me towards this job, I ended up interviewing and taking a role at a place that is no longer really here. But I was in Iowa. And so, you know, I took whatever there was at that time. And my first job, I showed up. The address was no joke, 666 Walnut. So if that doesn't mean anything. Yeah. You know, I looked out the window, I saw Country Financial across the street, and that was kind of the end of that. So a few months of that. Then I moved on and then I came out here to Denver and found the Financial Planning Association and fell in love with it. And that's something that I really try to articulate when I talk to advisors is that you don't know what you don't know at that age. In your early twenties you have like zero concept of what hard life could be like. You're just excited to be in it right? And so when I got to to FPA, I remember I called my then boyfriend and said, Wow, I really like it here. I feel like I could be here for like 20 years, like I could have a family. This is so great. And then, you know, all the things that have happened that have brought me here, it's like my eyes are wide open. Yeah, for sure. I remember my first day at FPA was actually March 17th. I can't remember what years, many, many years ago. But I had that same feeling, like I didn't know anything about the industry. I kind of like I needed a job. I met Carly and she was fantastic and it was just such a cool office, like it was in a nice part of the city. I just felt it felt magical. But I think more and more we're hearing people intentionally coming into the field, less of stories like ours and more so, you know, going through programs and stuff. And the last time I saw you in person was at FPA’s next gen gathering, and you were very instrumental in getting that community up and running and started during your time at FPA. And you've been championing next gen leadership and initiatives since I've known you. So let's talk a little bit about that work that you did to establish FPA’s next gen and your thoughts about how it's grown and where it is today. Yeah, you know, I think I fell into that too, because it was something I saw as an opportunity and I saw this massive disconnect growing within the profession, not on purpose. It was just a byproduct of an industry that had been a growth industry for so long and had seen so many new new technology, new advisors, new firms come into play. And there was this disconnect between what it takes to get a job in this field that is fulfilling. It's not the grunt, you know, sort of like the call in your friends and family situation and show up, you know, with three years of experience before you get hired. And we had so many firm owners that I was working with on the we had like a group program where we were really working with RES to help them cultivate a good culture within and also keep that ongoing education going. And so we would say to them, Hey, don't you have like new advisors, interns, anybody that you want to bring into the organization? And that's what really opened my eyes. And there were people at FPA that were doing this long, a long time before me, but it was just again, like the louder you can be, the more people start to listen. And so I helped them advocate and really bring that to the forefront of the work that we did at FBI. So it wasn't me necessarily, but it was certainly me saying every time there was a conversation, there's needs to be a next gen person here. We need to talk about how the next gen is involved. And I will tell you that that is a very difficult position to be in sometimes because I'm not necessarily speaking like putting words in their mouths on their behalf, but I wanted to make sure that there was an opportunity for them. And that meant Ruffling Feathers Weekly. Yeah, some of those old tried and true, you know, like task forces and things. I had a lot of conversations. I had to I had to kind of call, you know, individuals and eat my words and sort of apologize and say, you know, I was called to next gen at one point and I don't even know what that is. And I was like, Well, and it was because you like I mean, we're millennials are like but at the time, this was many, many years ago, like, this was this is kind of off the beaten path. But just to ask, like as a young professional in that spot, trying to advocate for something that you saw was a need, like what was that like and how did you kind of overcome any sort of maybe imposter syndrome or any voices in your head that said, hey, like maybe, you know, you know, we all didn't hear those voices. And I think that Gen Z's a little better about that than our generation. But tell me a little bit about how you handle that. Yeah, I think some of it is the people you surround yourself with and that I learned. I didn't know that I learned that as I was doing this. And there were some phenomenal people, you know, I think even like Andrew Seaford said in Michael Kitz’s, Alan Moore, where some of those people who had been there and had started sort of this next gen gathering vibe started to pave the path. But then the people that looked up to them and we're we're trying to be just as vocal and progressive as they had presented in the past. You know, those people would call me and we would we would talk. We developed great friendships and we would kind of cheer each other on and give each other that a little push, you know, to say, Hey, I think that's a great idea. You should do that. So that was really helpful. And I, I also have to credit FPA in general for being a very open organization. They pushed this learning culture and I think there was like more of a human element there than I had experienced anywhere else yet in my career. And so having really great role models and people who would say, Yeah, you're totally qualified to do this, this is exactly your calling. You need to, you need to step up. I think that helped me feel that a little more. Yeah, that's really important. That type of sponsorship and connection and community, which kind of leads me to my next question. You know, why would you say it's important for next Gen and young professionals to be part of communities like next Gen or like the task force you're on with the American College? Like why is that an important element to their career growth? Yeah, you know, it feels like you're tacking one more thing on, but nobody has time for. But I have to tell you, as a mother of three under seven, we're moving. We're you know, we're doing all these things. We've had we've had life intervened, right? We've had major health challenges and we've had, you know, family loss and lots of things that you don't think you have to navigate in your thirties. But guess what You do, you will. And there's no perfect time to do anything that is like number one message to everyone that's listening. Like you could plan the perfect plan, but it doesn't mean anything because it only takes one phone call or one wrong turn or a text message and your your life changes on a dime. So don't wait for the right opportunity to come to you is only going to show up if you're in the room or you've made that connection and your your name is mentioned. When you're not in the room, people won't just look you up on LinkedIn and say, Oh, that person looks interesting, let's invite them. You got to make it happen. So I would say just continue to try things. It doesn't even have to be, you know, in this industry, it can be related hobby type things. All of that pans out. You just never know for sure. And you brought up something we just talked about this. I interviewed some of my colleague, my next gen colleagues here at Carson, and we were talking about that adaptability that, you know, as a young person, for me, I was very like, okay, this is my path and these are my steps and would get very frazzled and flustered if it didn't go according to my plan. But just like you said, things happen as we get older. Things change. You have to be adaptable. And that resilience, that kind of you know, and you get that with support and with, you know, life experience. It comes with this. I thank you for bringing that up because that's such an important point. So let's kind of shift a little bit here on the American colleges, this next gen advisory task force, along with some really amazing women in the industry, some of whom have been guests here on the podcast, too. But let's tell us a little bit about the work that you do there and you know how people can get involved and help. Yeah, So I mean, the task force isn't something that was relatively new. It's just spotlighted more now. I think there's always been this undercurrent of progress within the college, and I found that really appealing. So even like during COVID when everybody was trying to find their way, I was trying to make those connections and stay really in tune with it because we knew that coming out of that pandemic there would be such a massive call to help our peers and make sure that everybody was a doing okay and then be found their path again, because I would just like to call those the lost years for sure. Let's just write them off. But now I would say, you know, it's people who want to get involved. We're always seeking new ideas and we don't know what the next generation is looking for because we're that, you know, we're growing just along with everyone else. So we have to stay attuned to that. And we can only do that with peers who reach out and say, hey, you know, I had this really great idea. We'd love to bring them along. The more we talk about it, the better it will be. And I would say, just like, you know, progress in general, as I'm aging, I'm seeing different I'm seeing different challenges that can be solved that I didn't see before. And I don't know if that's, you know, the nature of the industry in the market, aging at the way that it is. We have this crisis of succession planning, and that's something that drove me to my last role and drives me now still to help this this understanding between both sides of the table and that an action advisor isn't going to know that a firm that they're going to is going to be their perfect home. It's like a date. You're trying to figure it out. You come in, you have this plan. You might be thinking, like you said on I like my path is I'm going to be a partner at this firm. But ultimately you don't know until you get in there. You look around, you might realize, I don't want to work these people or I don't really love our clients. I'd rather do something different. And this fear of like not living up to what your your brain told you you need to do, it's really hard. It's like you just had Julianne, you know, you talked about the sunk cost fallacy. I think that happens so much with succession planning where people are afraid to even embark on it. And so they're sort of rendered in like they just don't make a plan. And then that's where we are now, is people did not plan and they don't have a successor and they don't know where to go. So for an action, this is a massive opportunity to step up and say, I'd love to get to know you. I don't know if I'm your perfect successor, but I certainly could could help you figure it out. And maybe we are a great fit. And that's going to that's going to continue to happen more and more. We just have to encourage action to be vocal about it and for owners to see that not as a permanent solution, but to be open to talking it through and feeling it out. Yes, you said a lot of really great things there. And one thing that kind of came up with that notion of, you know, with the task force, like asking people, talking to people talk specifically, talking to the next gen professionals like, you know, here at Carson Coaching, we recommend that firm owners have client advisory boards where they ask their clients like, what do you like about our offering? What are we missing that you might want to us to incorporate? So this notion of asking young professionals what they're looking for and this this plays in with succession planning to like what? What are the next gen professionals looking for, whether this is my G-2 or not? Like, what are they looking for? How can I structure a deal that would benefit both parties and stuff like that? So I know that's really interesting. And then and then he talks about like your your role, right? So we kind of I move pretty fast and sometimes I just get excited, ask the question. But tell us a little bit about your role now with Intention.ly what you do there. Yeah, so I'm an outsourced chief marketing officer for a variety of firms. It could be fintech. I've got some RAs. I had a fund company, I have a public fund company, I've got compliance companies, a number of firms. So it keeps keeps me on my toes. You know, they all have their different challenges. But it reminds me so much of when I started in this industry and there was like ten or 15 fintech companies like Money Guy Perot was like one of the only ones, and now there's thousands. So, you know, it's constantly like, just like learning and then and then figuring out where is this industry heading? And that's I mean, it's it's all going to be driven by like this next generation. And I am actually afraid that I'm going to be like those before me that we've been trying so hard to like, continue to drive that connection of like look behind you and see what's coming in and figure out how to adapt with this. I am worried that that's going to happen to me because you look up and I'll be 45 or something one day here soon and it's like, what? You know what is coming? I don't know. TikTok is all over. My kid, my son is five and he thinks he's perpetually in a video game. He, like, tells me he's adding a banana to his inventory as he leaves in the morning. I'm like, What are you talking about? I live a different life. You know, that reminds me of a funny story. We so we've been like, we wanted to watch Gray's Anatomy, but we had not watched it for many, many years. So we've been watching some reruns. And there was this episode where Dr. Bailey was like, Oh, why do they have to make up new words? The old words work just fine, like my my husband and I, he has a lot of younger clients. He's a he's a personal trainer. And he's like And I was like, yeah, like, no cap. Like, what does that even mean? So it's like, we feel so old when we talk to like the Gen Z areas, Like they have a whole language that we don't understand, like adding bananas to your inventory. Yeah, it's funny because it's like it happened so fast like that. We were just super young and now we're just we're just about to get past that threshold. You Yeah, it's scary and scary that it's scary. But let's shift a little and talk about ideas. Like, I remember working with you, like you were always churning out these amazing ideas and really cool things, you know, like even during the last years, right? You and Hannah more work together on the very first externship and things like that. Let's talk about just like kind of how how do you get inspired to have these ideas and what kind of where do you where do you source these great ideas and what do you do to have them? I think this is the fun things, right? Like, this is, like I said, like hobbies and other things that you have going on your life. They can inspire you to do the things that you're you're paid to do on your every day. And I found even during those last years, like there was this energy that you feed off of with people, when you meet certain people, you just know I think you have to be in the right setting. And so for advisors who are struggling to find this like creative moment or they don't know what to do next, they're kind of just stuck, but they're not loving where they're at. I think it's part part of it is finding the right people to be around because that helps you see things from different perspectives and then it unlocks something in your brain. And like I find my happy spaces. I don't. I think a lot of people have the same happy spaces. Like for me, it's like quiet when the kids are in bed and like I take like a shower at night. I'm like, Oh, my brain can think again about what I want to think about. And that's where like during COVID, you know, talking to Hannah, when I, when I sort of shifted away from the externship and moved on and went to a few transitions and I didn't want to lose that. So I reached out to a variety of experts that I'd come across, and I was just like, Hey, do you guys want to meet like every two or three weeks on a Friday and just have like a one hour creative session? No expectations? And they were like, Yes, And the greatest ideas and like, the next adventure in my life came from that. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, I find my happy places like I go, I run every morning and I get the best ideas when I'm running. Like, sometimes like my Jamie will want to run with me. And I'm like, Oh, not today. Today I'm like, I'm in. I'm in the creative flow. I want to have fun like that and I want to talk. I just want to go. But that's great. That's a great advice to have. Find your happy place. So let's just a little bit and talk about, you know, how do you think that firm owners and the industry in general can better engage with next gen professionals moving forward? Yeah, I feel like one of the points of of I don't know what the word is, there's no synergy. And they struggle to kind of come together on this front where I think firm owners are worried that the next generation is going to come in, have massive expectations, be annoying, take over, you know, not deal with the hard work, like not appreciate what's been built before them. And so there's like all this baggage that comes with the idea of even hiring action, not for everybody, but I think for a lot that's where we we struggle. And and I've heard it firsthand from foreign firm owners who would come in to FP transitions and have a conversation. And they're like, we know we need to build a succession plan. Here's what I really think about this. Like, I don't love my options. I don't know where to go to find these people. And then when I do find them, this is what I think about it. You know, so so if you could just kind of like separate yourself from from like these preconceived notions of what a next generation advisor is and just go at it like, I'm seeking a great business partner who I know isn't going to look like me. I know that they're going to bring different skills to the table, which I'm excited to see. You know, I don't know how to value some of those and I'm going to need to learn with them. And from a negotiation perspective, being able to articulate that value, to say with appreciation, you know, firm owners have built something really great that they're super proud of and now they need something different. You don't maybe need the same skills that you needed to build a 200 million, um, firm. Now you're getting to that like 500 million threshold. You might need a team of professionals who look very different from the firm owner themselves. They're not business development reps, you know, they're. They're people who might be a passion for technology, the client experience, customer service, all those things that you can't do yourself. So I wish that that that relationship would form and that it would form without these grand expectations of like if I hire somebody, they have to be the answer. It's just not true. It's a lot of pressure to put on a young advisor, you know. But Dr. Julie and I were talking about that notion of like having the preconceived notions and then judging young talent based on what you went through and what your standards for yourself are like. We brought up the topic. She brought up the topic specifically of like dress, right? If you if you want to wear some jeans and a hoodie on days, you're not our non client facing day. That's cool. But like for a you know Gen X professional or older millennial professional might be like, whoa, that blows my mind. Like I would never. But at the same time, it's like Dr. Julie has like I have learned how to not judge that if they're not seeing clients that day, that's fine that they want to wear jeans and a hoodie. So I think letting go of those antiquated, you know, evaluations that we might have for how it should be and this notion of, well, I paid my dues. People have to pay their dues to like that hazing mentality also has to go away. It's it's everywhere. You're totally right. I remember I mean, that's been I think, the oldest argument in the books for why somebody is not a fit for a success, a successor role. And it's you know, we are seeing even this inability to afford to buy in. If you're an individual that's a successor. And like like I said, like there's no perfect time for anything in your life. Right. And like, you finally get that opportunity and you realize that this firm is valued at, I don't know, $7 million or $5 million. That is an incredible I don't even know, like, what would I do right? I, I don't have millions of dollars. It's just sitting around. But there's financing opportunities that do come into play with this. There's partners, there's firms like Carson that take a partial stake. There's I mean, and anytime you enter in a relationship like that, they're going to go, what is your succession plan and make you map that out. So I there's answers was always an answer. Yeah, for sure. So let's talk about a little bit your perspective on what next Gen Talent is looking for and what firm owners can do to kind of attract and retain that next gen talent. Yeah, when I was a gathering, I had a good conversation and I recorded I recorded an anonymous podcast and it was essentially an interview of an individual who out of college went to a firm, was on this sort of junior partner path, or that was the implication, and about a year and a half in was realizing that maybe wasn't the case and was trying to have those conversations to get that owner to kind of at least put on paper a plan for starting to move in that direction. And the the firm owner was was pretty tight lipped about it, didn't want to go into that conversation. And so she finally decided I got to go because I'm wasting like my grind years at a firm that maybe doesn't value me and isn't if they're not willing to even start the conversation, are they going to ever finish it right? So I think that's that's the big thing is you come into a company, it's okay to articulate loudly what you're expecting within appreciation for like you're not expecting anything today, but you want to put it out there in the world. Like I think one day I might want to own my own firm. I might want to be a partner here with something like that. Ever be an option? I'd love to continue to work towards that. And if you don't say it, like I said, it's not going to happen for you. It's so rare that somebody goes, Hey, Ana, I heard that maybe you want $1,000,000. Is that true? Like, let me just offer that to the I want to put that I'm going to put that out there right here on the podcast. I do want $1,000,000 here. But, you know, Diana Curry says she presented to our Super Latino Advisors Summit in September, and that was one of her speech was very powerful. But one of the most tangible takeaways for me was like, just ask for it. Like, if I mean, I know I'm already, you know, as old as I am and as far as I am in my career. But like, it blew my mind, like just ask for it. Like, yeah, like I, you know, and that was one thing. I talked with some of the younger professionals who were at that event. Like, I loved that and I hope y'all take that and implement it because, you know, again, just like you said, if you don't ask for what you want in your life, like you're not going to get it. So, I mean, that's such a powerful takeaway, especially for the next gen. You know, it's one of those things I think we intuitively know boomer born and as we're growing up and we lose it as we become humans in this this world that we we grow up in, because I see it in my kids like my daughter, it doesn't matter where we are or what kind of thing we're purchasing if we're picking up drugs at the pharmacy. Her question is always, can I have a sticker and can I have one for my brother? If they say yes, great. Now I'm going to ask for more. And then typically they do give it to her, even if it's the lamest sticker in the world of like an American flag or whatever, like she's so excited and she gets one at least 90% of the time. I love advocacy from a young age for yourself and for her brother. That's fantastic. But it's true. Like I notice some people ask me, like for stuff, like I rarely say no. Like if like, wow, that was really bold of her to ask that. Sure you I know how you go. I love that. I love that perspective. So let's you know, we've been doing we just launched yesterday our very first episode of our Reframe live series. So it's basically right now I'm hosting a lot of them. It's a little live series we're doing on LinkedIn and Twitter that's owned by the women of Carson for women and allies in the industry. And it's called Reframe. And we're we're kind of tying reframe and framework together because they are, you know, one is an offshoot of the other. And so this question has become my favorite question. And it's basically what is one thing you wish people would reframe their thinking on when it comes to serving the next generation of clients and employees? Oh yeah, there are a lot of things I thought through when I saw that question, because I think from a marketing perspective, there's a lot of things that I think about that I see first handed intentionally, and it's this misunderstanding of what needs to go into marketing to serve your firm's growth, to serve your clients. From an experience standpoint, these are all hand in hand things, and I think there's a lot of firms that say, I'm going to double down on social media, and if I post every day or five times a week, I'm going to see growth. And that's just like not that's not realistic. You get out of something typically what you put into it. You know, like we talked about asking for things. You have to ask for commitment from your community, but your community isn't going to say yes to anything if they don't really know you or care about what you're doing. So you have to foster a different kind of culture. And that means coming at it from multiple dimensions. And that is definitely social media is it's definitely email, it's phone calls. I mean, I think we lost the sense of like, I don't know about you, but when my phone rings, I'm like, Oh, must be important or, or not connecting from it. Like, who could possibly need to call me? Text me. Exactly. Just text me. And so when I get a phone call, even like the voice mails, like I find I appreciate that as a professional, where I'm at in my life and as a as a client, I would be interested if my advisor called me and actually left me something. You know, they send me messages once in a while. I think this, like personal peace still has to play a huge role in the work that you're putting in to grow your firm. You can't just do it on social media. That's crazy. Yeah. So reach beyond then. Yes, please. So what's what's one takeaway you hope our listeners get from this episode and implement? Start implementing right away? I think I think what we talked about asking for the things that you want and it's so easy to forget this and we see this in the way that firms market themselves right now. Even, you know, there's you forget and it's it's like so obvious. But I've seen the most obvious mistakes come through from a marketing side like I have. We just did a we did a booth a couple of years ago for an event and we were about to order and ship it. And I'm like, Guys, it doesn't say our company name anywhere. Like, No, nobody saw this. That's going to be a mess when you got there. Like, why is our blog? So we don't know. No, I like the physical booth, Like they printed all the things. Yeah, I'm like, Guys, nobody knows who this is. Yeah, okay, that's pretty obvious. But it happens. And so, like, you know, you send messages to people and you're cultivating community and you're talking to your clients. And we've seen in different ways, like maybe it's asking for referrals, or maybe it's just asking like, Hey, can you please make an effort to, you know, like bottom of my calendar in our calendars in six months and let's revisit this really uncomfortable conversation again. Or don't forget to complete this paperwork. I'm going to follow up with you in three weeks. You know, like this ask for commitment is is so easy to overlook because it's uncomfortable. And like we said, if you don't ask for it, you're not going to get it. So if you're doing things on social media and you're hoping that your business grows, if you're not asking them to download something comic, come to your website, reach out to you. How are you going to know it's effective? And that's what I wish. Just ask. Put your you're asking everything like try today, just whatever the next thing is. Be like, you know what? I'm going to go one step further and I'm going to ask because a deal and you can walk away and enjoy your Friday. Yeah that's that's great advice. It's a great way to as we start to wrap up. But yes, I always like to you know, in case I forgot to ask something that our guests wanted to include, is there anything that I didn't ask that you like to include? No, I feel I don't know. I guess I just feel like where I'm at in my career and I bet you feel this, too. Like gratitude for all the things that have happened to me that maybe kind of weren't were awful at the time or, you know, I there's a lot of things that have happened, like discomfort in advocating for an action discomfort and asking for things. Discomfort in trying to fight, like realizing that the path that I had prepared was no longer an option, didn't make sense. And then you just kind of like roll with it. And as soon as you unlock that, that like a like that fear that you might have or something there and you you open your mind to like what is the possibility now that might be there that I didn't think about and it's exciting and everything turned out okay. It's all going to be okay. I'm a big believer in those times that are uncomfortable or like the times a week maybe consider failures are often times when I look back on it and reflect. Those are the best times of my life, not because of the discomfort in the moment, but because of what came next. Like it's always something amazing comes next. Always. And it's like, so whenever I'm in struggle or something, to your point, I'm like, You know what? This is sowing the seeds for something that's going to be great. So I love that you brought that up because I'm a big believer in that too. And Jess, as we wrap up, my last question is, you know, you you were at the Excell Conference a couple years ago. You enjoy it. Seem to enjoy it. Let's talk about, you know, what were some of your favorite elements of the Excell conference as we get to planning out our fall conferences? Well, okay. Aside from the fact that I was in Vegas where I got married, we have such a love, a love of that culture in like such a fun way for our family. Yes. But at home, wherever, wherever the event will be, is always it's always really there's some awesome takeaways. And I find that the Excell conference brings something more human than a lot of other events where I find myself connecting to things that I hadn't thought through like we had that the gentleman who talked about going to Africa and the water and all of those all of those things made me think so differently. And I left that session realizing that there was so much more potential for someone in my role that I could do beyond what I had thought and whether or not I did anything really great beyond that, because of it, I feel like it opened a door for me to think about things differently. And I also found it really. I mean, we we had an interview with George Bush like that and and to be honest, as a kid growing up in the nineties, I wasn't like a huge fan of George Bush. But then, like listening to the fireside chat, I realized that what you see on TV and what you hear in the news is like completely tainted us. And like just hearing him as a human talk about life and what's valuable and important and how he sees things and the way that he navigated really interesting topics. I had a different kind of appreciation for that kind of work, and I bet you do too, just even from being from FPA and the political side of that that world. I have such respect for people who put themselves in the line of fire every day in that regard. Definitely, yeah. That was one of my favorite things. I kind of it was. I mean, obviously any time you get a chance to see a living president, definitely take it. It was really cool. And what was my favorite part of it was I did enjoy hearing him as a human and hearing him talk about like, just like his painting and things like that. But when Nellie went up to him and just kind of like, hey, President Bush wanted to pay me like he was so precious to me, it's like, Oh, he's good people then if Nellie likes him, you know? No reason. But yeah, I know. So. So Jess where can people find you? They hear this, they want to connect with you, you know, How do they where's the best place to do that? They should connect with me on LinkedIn. That's where everybody reaches me. You have questions. If you have questions about marketing and you want the Intention.ly brains behind it, just shoot me a note on LinkedIn because we're always happy to have a conversation. Awesome. Well, thank you so much just for joining me today. It's been such fun catching up. What was going on. Yeah, thanks, Ana. Yeah, and as you all start to plan out your fall conferences, put Excell on the list like Jess said, this year, we're going to do something really magical in Orlando and it's going to be very exciting. Spark, imaginative ideas, all of that good stuff that's Excell Conference with two L’s, excellconference.com So put that on your list for September and thank you for listening to this episode. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss another one.
